Thorny issues with Sex
I’ll like to discuss 2 major points that were omitted by The Sunday Times when they published our(AWARE’s) letter ( http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/aware_sex_education/ )regarding teenage sexuality. I suspect they omitted these points because they are really thorny issues, with no easy, non-controversial solutions. I see no easy way out as well, but still I think these issues should be brought out for discussion, in hope that someone reading might have good suggestions or a different angle to it. Definitely should not just sweep it under the carpet.
POINT 1
FACT: If you’re female, being MARRIED is your biggest risk factor for getting and STI or unwanted pregnancy.
There is a common misconception that unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are a problem of teenagers. The fact is that in Singapore, teenagers account for only about 5% of the STI cases and about 10% of the abortion cases. About 2/3 of 12,000 – 14,000 abortions here are performed on married women, and 2/3 of the female HIV patients here are faithful wives who contracted the infection from their husbands.
When over 10,000 married women find themselves in the position of having to consider an abortion, every year, in a country like Singapore, where the education system is supposedly one of the world’s best, where condoms are easily available at any supermarket, convenience store and pharmacy, where birth control pills are available for a mere $5 for a month’s supply at public clinics, we really have to reconsider our current sex education system.
Unlike many programs which focus on the teenage years of girls, AWARE’s program takes a lifelong approach. This makes sense to me, because what we learn in school is meant to see us through our entire lives. English, mathematics, science, health education, moral education – all these are as applicable to us today as they were when we were primary school students. Likewise with sex education, the overwhelming majority of people would have sex at some point in their lives, either when they get married, or before they do.
Preaching against premarital sex gives the impression that sex within marriage is somehow safe. Vocal objections in the media to teenage sex, and laws protecting girls below the age of 16, give the impression that sex is safer for older people. Sadly, the fact that the majority of abortion and STI patients are married, and are not teenagers, highlights the importance of equipping people with lifelong skills. The best age to start would be of course, at puberty, where schools provide the best platform and opportunity for giving our adults of tomorrow the information they need.
Taking a lifelong approach, we can see the limitations of the abstinence-only message. The abstinence message is only useful for teenagers. The abstinence message is unhelpful in preventing over 8000 married women from having unwanted pregnancies each year. The abstinence message is unhelpful for the older person who has decided to engage in sex and is looking for ways to practice it safely.
Telling people that being faithful would reduce their risk of getting STI infections is unhelpful for the faithful housewife who feels powerless to stand up to her philandering husband, whom she depends on financially. The abstinence and faithfulness messages are good messages, which are beneficial as a public health policy to reduce the total number of STI infections in the entire population, but they may not always be helpful at the individual’s level.
We need to tell people that unwanted pregnancies and STIs do happen to good, faithful, married people, that they happen to people with college degrees and well-paying jobs. We need to tell you that it could happen to you. We all need to know that the only contraceptive method that can protect us effectively is the condom.
That being said, I know how difficult and thorny this can be. Relationships are built on trust, not paranoia. Why would you be in a relationship with someone you can’t even trust to be faithful, and have to insist on a condom years after being married? As national policy makers, what kind of advice can you give to the faithful partner? There is no easy answer. At the end of the day, we are all human, all vulnerable to fall, and we do. After the forgiveness or divorce is through, the last thing we want to deal with is HIV. The only thing we can do, then, is to equip people with the raw hard facts, rather than give a false sense of assurance, and leave them to decide for themselves.
POINT 2
FACT : Making it a criminal offense of having sex with girls under 16 can harm the under-16 girls having sex.
In the course of conducting these workshops for these students, I have met girls under 16 who love their teenage boyfriends so much, that instead of risking their boyfriends going to jail, they risk their health and lives by sticking objects up their birth canal to do a DIY abortion at home. I have met teenage girls so terrified of authority, they will risk their safety going out with strangers met online while keeping their parents in the dark. I have met girls who come under so much peer pressure to have sex, or who are outright blackmailed – with compromising mobile phone videos and photos for example.
Again, there is no easy answer. The law is there to deter and prosecute malicious sex predators—who tend to be adults. But the law is a weak deterrent for teenage boys whose girlfriends have promised not to tell. Fortunately, it seems that the courts are a lot more lenient to these teenage boys – still, they get probation, simply for having sex. The law has resulted in under-16s going to the doctors only in the late stage of pregnancies or STIs, when it becomes a lot more complicated to treat. How do we get around this problem? I honestly don’t know. I tell teenagers that their health should be No.1 priority, and that no doctor can force them to reveal the identity of their boyfriend.
I understand that condoms can fail especially when used incorrectly. So I show teenagers how to use it correctly, and I make sure they practice using it correctly before leaving my workshop. I make sure they know that even if they do not go “all the way”, STIs can still spread through oral sex or heavy petting, and pregnancies can still happen even if their boyfriends “pull out” in time. I understand that even with practice, people can still fail to use condoms properly or fail to use it at all. So I introduce teenagers to the Morning-after-pill, which is the second and last chance at preventing an unwanted pregnancy.
I understand that we can be pressured into having sex at times, and we can mistake sex for love at times. So I teach teenagers how to negotiate effectively for what they want – whether it is abstinence or sex with condom use. I go through with them what makes a relationship healthy or not, and how to move the relationship towards a healthier direction, or how to get out of it if that cannot be done.
We need go beyond the simplistic view that STIs and unwanted pregnancies are the problems of unruly promiscuous teenagers, and take a closer look at what reality is. We will then see that simply telling them to abstain, will not help the ones who truly need help, and will not help the adults that our teenagers would eventually become.
Ref:
Profile of women presenting for abortions in Singapore at the National University Hospital
Kuldip Singh*, Y.F. Fong, S.Y. Loh Contraception 66
http://www.geocities.com/mathia_lee_yu_chun/singaporeabortions.pdf
Rising Trends of STIs and HIV Infection in Singapore – A Review of Epidemiology Over the last 10 Years (1994 to 2003)
Priya Sen, , Hiok-Hee Tan, Roy KW Chan, Ann Acad Med Singapore
http://www.geocities.com/mathia_lee_yu_chun/STIepidemiology.pdf
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Hey the header should be changed to “IF YOU ARE FEMALE, SINGLE BUT INDULGE IN CASUAL SEX, PLEASE SUPPLY YOUR OWN ROOM, BED, CONDOMS – IN ORDER TO STEAL OTHER PEOPLE’S BOYFIREND “SAFELY”, FOR SAFETY, SUPPLY YOUR OWN THINGS” !!
Hmmm angry words, but very valid. Makes sense, this is great advice actually = )
Actually, this is part of the dating safety tips that we cover.
Think about this.
If you try to play the “prim-and-proper” girl who says No (but doesn’t actually know how to say No), and you go to your boyfriend’s house, you are putting yourself at risk. You don’t know what he wants, you don’t know if he has condoms, you don’t know if he will force himself on you if you insist on condoms but he doesn’t have any, and you don’t know if he’s into weird sadistic sex. You don’t know if there is anyone else in his house who can rescue you when you scream, you don’t know where the exists are and the way out, you don’t know the territory, you don’t know anything. You are extremely vulnerable. And even if he has the condom, you don’t know if it has been stored under high temperatures which might have damaged it, you don’t know the abuse it has been through. You don’t know if there are hidden web cams around.
And you’ll be really stupid if you didn’t tell anybody where you were going or who you were going out with — you must always let someone know, even if that’s not your parents!
On the other hand, if you were to acknowlege that you want sex, AND THEN PLAN AND BE PREPARED for it, and you are in your own home, you have home ground advantage. You know who is around to hear you scream should things go wrong. You know where the emergency exits, the knives, the pepper sprays are kept. You know which rooms are secure that you can run to. You know where you condoms have been, how they have been kept. You know where they are kept and you can use it. You know where you hid the webcams.
This may be very gender stereotypical, and this may not be fool-proof advice, and he might be able to stalk you to your house in future, but for that night, you are making things safer for yourself.
And don’t think this only happens with strangers you bring home — remember how many people have been murdered by their abusive lovers.
Could we see the original letter?
Thank you for the information…
Hi Jermyn Wee, sorry forgot to inlc the link. Here it is http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/aware_sex_education/
thanks for pointing out!
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Mathia,
Some points I would like to highlight.
I take exception to your “FACT 1″ header that states – “If you’re female, being MARRIED is your biggest risk factor for getting and STI or unwanted pregnancy.”
It looks anti-family and anti-marriage. I however, would like to approach it differently. To me, it is because of the philandering husband, that the faithful wife suffers.
If truly the stats show that the highest cause of STI is found amongst married couples, then surely, it is a national concern and everyone, the government included, SHOULD educate husbands AS FIRST PRIORITY, to be faithful to their wives.
After all, isn’t the unfaithful husband one of the biggest reason for divorce in the first place?
That said, I do not think you should say just because married women contract STIs in large numbers, it is hence OK for young unmarried girls to go round having a fling, albeit, do it safely.
What makes you think that if married men can contract STIs by having a good fling, young unmarried girls won’t get it, doing the same?
The condom is no guarantee for safe sex. Being faithful to your partner still is. That includes the husband of course.
PS – can you enable the function to alert the poster of any replies?
Dear Solo Bear, thank you very much for taking the time to read and comment — I believe discussion is very important, especially when we do not agree. (Addressing your PS first, I don’t know how to enable the function to alert the poster or anyone of replies. If anyone can tell me how to, i’ll be glad to do so)
To me, “Be faithful” as an advice for safe sex, is like telling people to “BE HONEST” as a crime prevention national campaign advice to decrease theft. In both cases, being faithful and being honest are very good moral values that I would applaud anyone for. However, in both cases, you are putting your own safety in the hands of a potential adulter or thief.
Just as, in our crime prevention messages, we tell people, the pickpockets are out there and they are trying to get you, so please be paranoid and zip up your bags properly, we should continue to tell people that husbands are not as faithful as we hope they would be. so please protect yourself.
Just as in our rape prevention messages, we tell people, there are rapist out there, so please don’t go through deserted parks at night, we should continue to tell people that husbands are not as faithful as we hope they would be. so please protect yourself.
Educating husbands to be faithful is great, and yes we should do that. Just like educating the public to respect the consent rights of women, and not rape them in deserted parks is great, and yes we should do that. But just because these educational campaigns are ongoing, and I would say, successful enough, we should never put our lives at risk by walking through deserted parks late at night. Ditto for the husband. The emotional turmoil from having a philandering husband is terrible enough, without having to deal with another problem of HIV.
While the condom is not 100%, when used correctly and consistently, it protects up to 99%, but more importantly, it is the ONLY method of STI prevention during sex.
As for the case of young unmarried girls, I think you’ve mistaken my meaning. I never, and would never, say that they can have a good fling without getting STIs.
My point is that STIs affect EVERYONE the same way, it does not matter whether you are a slut or a housewife, you’re smart or stupid, Christian or athiest, gay or straight, husband or unmarried girl, STIs are non-discriminatory, it affects you the same way in your virgin attempt at sex , or your 100th attempt. And so no matter WHO you are, WHAT you are, how many times you’ve had sex, PLEASE stay safe, and use a condom. And BE PREPARED to use one. Just because you are a great faithful person, who succumbed unintentionally to temptation or peer pressure or whatever, for that JUST one time, and so were caught unprepared,and had unprotected sex, it does not mean that you will be safe. You are at a much higher risk than a gay prostitute who protects himself 100% of the time.
[...] December 29th, 2008 Dear Solo Bear, thank you very much for taking the time to read and comment ( http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/thorny-issues-with-sex/#comment-232) — I believe discussion is very important, especially when we do not agree. (Addressing your PS [...]
Hi Mathia,
Are you suggesting that sex with minors be decriminalized ?
You mentioned that you have met girls “under 16 who love their bfs so much” that they are willing to risk their lives by doing DIY abortions at home.
Honestly, I find it incredulous to believe that girls of this age know the meaning of “love”. More than often, they are exploited by the guys without knowing it and many grow up to regret their actions.
Guys and girls have different perceptions of sex. To girls, having sex with the man they love is an expression of their love for him. For guys, it is just a release of their physical urges.
I am flabbergasted at how the young are becoming sexually active at an increasing younger age. This was not the case during my time. I had my first gf only in my early 20s !
While it is impossible to regulate the sexual activities of these adolescents, the law must be put in place to protect young girls from exploitation.
Sex with minors is not love. It is statutory rape, as simple as that.
While condoms protect against STDs, it is still not 100% fool proof. Teenagers need to be educated on their responsibilities to themselves and their partners, to practice abstinence if possible, to stay faithful and refrain from casual sex and only lastly, if one is having sex with multiple partners or prostitutes, to use condoms.
I know you are still young, but try putting yourself in the shoes of a mother. Will you tell your daughter in the future to go out and “enjoy herself” as long she uses condom or will you advise her to save her virginity for marriage ?
At the end of the day, what is the message we are getting across ? I believe it should follow the priorities of A, B and C: Abstinence, Be faithful and lastly Condoms if all else fails.
Zhi Yuan
Dear Zhi Yuan, Thanks for commenting, it’s a real honour!!
I actually fully support the law criminalizing sex with minors, for all the reasons you have stated. But I also acknowlege the backlash that happens to a very small number of teens. Which is why, I say that this is a very thorny, controversial issue, with no easy answer at all. I’m hoping it will be brought out into the open, so that we can get ideas on how to both protect our minors from stat rape, and yet not endanger their lives. I really don’t know the solution.
I was talking to my friend in California, and apparently, the law against minors is only enforced if the other party is above the age of 19. They do not really enforce the law when sex between 2 minors happen, because both “don’t know better”. There, it seems, if an adult has sex with a minor 18 and below, irregardless of the gender of both the adult and minor, the adult can be prosecuted. Should we adopt a similar policy? I think we should at least discuss that.
And like anyone, I applaud and encourage responsible and faithful behavior, not just amongst teenage girls, but amongst all adults as well.
I may not be a mother , but I will (and have) packed condoms for my boyfriend when he goes to Taiwan (remember how many NS boys go to taiwan? ) , telling him that “hey, I love you, and i hope you stay faithful, but you’ve a right to choose your actions. I just want you be safe and responsible”
We have to acknowlege that we’re all human, and it’s impossible to explain to someone determined to have sex, why sex can be wrong.
If we continue to fool ourselves into believing that moral education can stop STIs, what we will continue to get is an increasing rate of STIs, HIV, abortions, teen pregnancy. We will also continue to turn a blind eye to Batam, where singaporean men are fueling a human trafficking , and child sex trade. If we continue to fool ourselves that moral education can make husbands faithful, and stop going to Batam, we will never legislate or enforce our laws to stop the human rights violations that our goody-two-shoes Singapore is directly contributing to.
fuk,what’s people’s sex life has to do with you hah? are u an old maid,ugly no one ones and jealous, probably religious, lack hormones, deprived because parents been telling you sex is dirty, religious nuts or what? aiyo, they die their business lah. that’s taking responsibility for yourself and taking responsibility for your family lah.
the more these perverts( in the pretext of solving people’ssexual problems) get out of family/personal business, the better – free market system you understand?
now if you want to trace where all these disseases originate…you will inevitably trace to the authorities, religious institutions or garbermen lah but like nichoson who played the general role in a few good men said…can you handle the truth or not?
no right?
so dont be a moron and fuk off lah
hey ah beng, what you’re asking for is basically ‘don’t educate anyone’, am I right? You want to let people remain ignorant of preventable diseases right? You’re probably one of those people who think people with AIDS should die, nevermind the children who got it from their mothers, nevermind the people unknowingly infected.
Can you show us proof of your conspiracy theory? Are you really that dense? Without education, without caring about other people, STD rates will rise as people are not exposed to the right information simply because a bunch of assholes think it’s not anybody’s business. Hey ah beng you know who you sound like? You sound like those conservative religious nuts in America, y’know the ones you appear to condemn and even accuse the writer of.
Hey everybody, let’s all clamp down on sex education and pretend the diseases don’t exist and when ah beng himself is infected by a poor sod who has no idea how to prevent STDs, let us applaud enforced eugenics for ridding the world of ‘irresponsible people’.
Man, I think YOU should fuck off ah beng.
Thanks antianera, i didn’t think anyone would stand up to him, but you did! really touched = )
get sg enquirer to interview people in white. their testimoney of whiteness will lift this sex deprived nation to new level of holiness i am sure.
good luck.
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Hi Mathia,
I will be quite sad if my gf pack condoms for me whenever I travel. This shows that she doesn’t trust me at all.
Come on, if a man wants to stray, he doesn’t have to go all the way to Taiwan to do so. He can easily get commercial sex services in Singapore which means you’ll have to pack condoms for your bf daily !
But then again, you do have a point. Faithful guys with only one partner are becoming a rarity nowadays.
Thanks! will definately be great when more people take an interest.
Someone emailed me with this very useful article providing the stats http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20081229/virginity-pledge-doesnt-stop-teen-sex
Thanks Zhi Yuan. you brought out a great point about how it is so easy to stray, right here on Singapore soil, and how it can be impractical to be packing condoms for someone else all the time.
Which really drives home the point that, if WE as INDIVIDUALS want to keep ourselves safe, then we should be prepared for it, and have the condoms ready.
Again, here’s a study someone forwarded to me, and I hope we can do similar studies in Singapore too.
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20081229/virginity-pledge-doesnt-stop-teen-sex
whilst the self appointed vigilante go about saving the world from diseases, it is best to remember to wipe off the cum from the corner of your lips after sucking small balls.
you’ll be more credible “educating” the masses otherwise, people will be wondering what’s trickling down your mouth if you know what i mean?
@ “helpful”….
If the only way that you can disagree with a topic is to insult and disrespect the messenger/speaker/writer, how exactly are you planning to be “helpful” about?
“the self appointed vigilante”….? I’m sure Mathia nor anyone else appointed her such title… What Mathia does is use her personal opinion and experience to write out ideas on what she believes would be a better way to educate people about Sex and STIs…. Now of course you’re not required to agree, you’re not required to even read, you should at least try to RESPECT, because one day you’ll expect people to respect what you say and write.
But reading your comment, even if you had an idea to convey when you started writing, your execution completely messed it up….
Great post Mathia, keep it up…. and Merry Xmas and Happy New Year btw…. =)
Thanks Alejandro! So sweet of you to stick up for me!!!
Your post was very interesting Mathia, and it really got me thinking about some of the paradoxes in our public policy. I think your first point regarding the high proportion of abortions being carried out in Singapore on married women is a very crucial matter that is often overlooked or overshadowed. As you rightly point out, its always these “hooligans” and “impressionable youth” that get singled out by the media and the authorities. Im not sure why the focus is on the youths, perhaps its easier for the more vocal voices( they tend to be older folks anyways, forum contributors, politicians, parents) to single out youth behavior and separate it from their own actions. Always easier to judge someone else, especially those who have little or no public voice.
Having said that, perhaps the reason for the focus on youth abortions may be due in part to the impetus behind the decision to abort. In the case of married women, such a decision is seen as a choice (i realise that many choices are not really free choices, and that external factors play decisive roles, but bear with me here) and as adults, it is seen that they have the mental and emotional capacity to make said choice. Younger girls however, are still seen as victims, and as ‘silly, childish’ kids whose follish actions have led to the abortion. This perception ties in the with the old fashioned notion that women are the weaker sex. Furthermore, and womens groups must take some responsibility here, these girls are made out to be victims of sex-crazed boys/men and that none of them ever wanted sex in the first place, or were pressured into the act. The reality is that there are times when the girls are the instigators of the sexual activity, and it is rather unfair to boys to claim that they took advantage of the girls. Each incident is different. (I may have gone slightly off-point here, but it is very early in the office right now, so pls bear with me.)
Now the second aspect of your first fact deals with STIs (when i was growing up they were std’s…) and the prevalence of the victims being married women. Immediately, the blame is thrown on philandering men who bring home the disease(s) and infect their poor innocent wives, who due to devotion, love and financial dependance, are at the mercy of their men and defenceless. While this tragic state of affairs does occur in SIngapore still, and it is truly sad to hear of such cases, it is also undeniable that there has also been a tectonic shift in societal roles and standings between the wives of the past and the wives of today. In today’s SIngapore, women have the same possibilities and opportunities as men when it comes to education and work (of course there remain unfair inbalances, but im comparing with the ’70s), and with the opportunity to start working at 21/22 while men are serving their NS (2 yrs now, 2.5 in my day), one can argue they even have the upper hand in early career advancement and renumeration. To claim that wives remain defenceless victims of the husbands they are financially dependant on is like trying to say that every person from China is the same, looks and personality. The true picture is much more complex, with many women on equal status or even in positions of supremacy relative to their significant other. Furthermore, it is also the case that more and more wives are also now straying outside of their marriage, making them just as likely to bring STIs into the marriage. It is important that we look at the reality of society, because there is little hope of finding real solutions otherwise. In my opinion, the strayer, regardless of them being the husband or wife, should take the blame when they stray.
As for the issue of under-16′s, you certainly picked a doozie for discussion! Perhaps legislation that expressly protects a girl’s right to not reveal the boy’s name regardless of who the asking party is, be it the doc, parents, police….although then the flipside is how to catch a child sex offender who has somehow scared or brainwashed the girl into not revealing the info….your guess is as good as mine really…
Cheers!
PS: 2 weeks ago I married my gf of 8 years(also my first gf) and i am proud to say i have never cheated on her. I know i sound like a 1960′s cliche but there are still some good guys left out there. That is why i thought it important to post what i did above.
it’s definitely a debate between men and women.
what makes you think men are entirely at fault? standing at your point of view?
it seems like your words are filled with angst towards men.
so,are you someone who’s been traumatized by the event of having sex at a young age or contracted some disease which you never thought of contracting or is there something else underlying and using sex education to cover for your “unhappiness” towards sex?
fyi, its all about choice. The Man can initiate. but the lady can always reject.
there’s no rule that if any man initiate any sexual intentions, the lady must accept.
photos, videos of naked images of the “girlfriends”. Were they taken by force?
in Videos, there is definitely visual and audio recorded. what was it you hear? did you specifically hear the man forcing the lady into the video?
what is love? this word is often mis-used.
to cover up for stupidity acts of an individual when they feel they have been taken for granted and cheated? this is so wrong.
this is what you perceive. your perception. Don’t generalize.
question the “authority” that gives us education and why are children nowdays still educated in such a conservative manner?
Can’t blame people for being curious or even Adventurous. can you change the way people live their lives?
Hi Dhillon and Fuz,
Thanks for highlighting the fact that my post seems to take the stereotypical view of women being the victims of men. I concede this and take and thank you for your points.
Indeed, while statistics show that women make up the bulk of patients being infected by the faithful partner, there are and always be cases where the male partner is infected by the female partner. Ad it is true that men can be and are victims of sexual harrassment or deceit as well. With the issue of abortions, while it is the female who goes through the abortion, both parties share equal responsibility.
Hence, a life long approach towards sex education should be taken, for BOTH sexes. Classes should be offered to BOTH sexes rather than just girls only.
Like I stated at the beginning, there is no easy solution or advice we can give to couples, married or not. It is a difficult balance between trust, and health. And there is no easy solution to balance protecting minors (the law actually protects both girls and BOYS under 16) against adult sex predators, and getting them to prioritise their health.
Which is why it is VERY important for us not to sweep these issues under the rug, but take them out, talk about them, and hopefully together, we can come up with something a little better.
education? pls lah
you don’t know the difference between education and judging others from a religious perspective.
till you sort it out hor, you better not carry tis touch and any how burn people’s kookoo chiao or cc by hor. LOL.
aiyah.
words of superior wisdem from top of hdb 40 story flat for you lah
WHAT SAVE MAY ACTUALLY KILL WORSE WORSE
WHAT KILL ACTUALLY HOR MAY SAVE
SAVE THE BODY, KILL THE SOUL
KILL THE BODY, SAVE THE SOUL
you under there can stand or not?
HAHAHAHA
Hi there,
Regarding your Fact No. 1:
If you’re female, being MARRIED is your biggest risk factor for getting and STI or unwanted pregnancy.
Firstly I must say, you do write very well and have good opinions on the issues. I would not want to comment on the statistics you brought up because I trust those are real statistics which can be easily verified anyway.
“About 2/3 of 12,000 – 14,000 abortions here are performed on married women, and 2/3 of the female HIV patients here are faithful wives who contracted the infection from their husbands.”
However, I do want to point out that out of the 12000-14000 abortions by married women, how many of those are voluntary abortions? Meaning there could be abortion cases where they abort because the babies are not deemed healthy (i.e. could be born retarded etc)? Or the doctors realised that the mother’s health could not sustain a pregnancy due to unnoticed health problems? Seriously I do not know the percentage of those, it could be low but then it does account for a number, then it could bring this particular point to another perspective instead of just categorising it under “lack of knowledge of contraceptives” etc….
“2/3 of the female HIV patients here are faithful wives who contracted the infection from their husbands.”
Now that is an interesting statistics. Again, I do not dispute the statistics that 2/3 of female HIV patients are MARRIED women. BUT wait! How sure are we that they should all be categorised as “FAITHFUL” wives? There are again many reasons why a wife can contract HIV. I think it is unfair to say that all married HIV female patients contracted it from their husbands. Maybe I am wrong but I find it hard to believe that any statistics would specifically put words like faithful into their statistical statements. Again, I am just trying to bring different perspectives into the points you bring out.
I also am uncomfortable with how your statement of FACT NO. 1 comes across. It is like putting MARRIAGE as the biggest culprit for STI and unwanted pregnancies. Now I am in my mid 30s and refusing to get married so I am not a biggest fan of marriages haha BUT the statement seems to come across as saying “Hey, you 2/3 of people who go unwanted babies or STI, that is because you all choose to get married” The statistics you brought out to support that fact at best agrees with that 2/3 of people with unwanted pregnancies and STI HAPPEN to be MARRIED. Their marital status should never have any impact on whether they get STI or not or whether they have unwanted babies or not. Again, I am just pointing this out. You may not mean it that way or maybe you really hate marriage so much then I rest my case haha.
Coming to the point of using condoms or contraceptives even when you are married, I do agree with that. It is alarming that educated women are still succumbing to stupid contraceptive procedures like WITHDRAWAL methods. This is what I heard from my friends who are none less graduates and discussing what are the various methods they use. I think the education of using the right contraceptives in marriage is still very important.
Let us not forget the many more happily married couples with children, many more than these people who got STI and have unwanted pregnancies. At the end of the day, I agree that condoms and contraceptives help. But as a married man and woman, how does that help to in procreation? Again, of course unless you are against procreation, I guess then the next best thing is those so called messages that appeal to your conscience like “Be faithful” etc haha. I think nobody will think a simple message like this is gonna solve the problems but if every single couple is gonna use a condom everytime they have sex, we may well be in a bigger problem in years to come. We will have no one to carry on the work in the society anymore.
Besides, I think at the end of the day, humans do repent by their CONSCIENCE not with STATISTICS, that is my humble opinion. When you throw a statistic to their face, they might just say, it would not happen to me but a guilt in their conscience could sometimes do more wonders than what statistics can do.
Hope I am making sense but I enjoy reading your posts!
aiyah, sg is too immature to discuss sex lah.i say that because of THE KIND OF PEOPLE leading sexual matters in sg lah. just read our reporters write sex related stories you will get the idea. however, you do get mixed views but the general overtone(authoritative) of writing is set by some old church spinster aunties who wear grannys underwears lah . hahaha.
just read some of the posters response here and you know what i mean. for instance, one guy ofered some reasonable opinion but at the end, has to “apologize” he is “faithful”! haha
i think he has been carrying the weight of guilt in this country since birth. hahaha.
as far as i can see, most respondents will react negatively towards how this topic is handled. and why?
err…tell you why got gold issit? hahaha
Dear Siong, Thank you very much for taking the time to comment. You do make sense, and your questions are very valid, and I’m sure they weigh in the minds of many others who read, so I want to thank you for asking them out on their behalf.
According to the study done (listed in my reference) about 8.7% of women abort due to medical reasons, and 1.6% due to contraceptive failure. Meaning that nearly 90% of the 2000 women surveyed did not really have to be in that position, had they known and practiced contraception effectively.
As for HOW the women contracted HIV, I am qouting our Health Promotion Board
http://www.hpb.gov.sg/hpb/default.asp?pg_id=865&aid=702&altid=0
Because HIV cases in singapore must be reported to the MOH, our statistics and documentation of how patients got infected can be very reliable and representative.
I am not against marriage. And my aim is not to cast marriage in a bad light. I am as sad as anyone about what reality is. What I put here, are just the statistics that arguably reflect reality.
At the end of the day, you are very right that statistics cannot persuade people. I do believe in the role of religious and moral education , or human conscience or anything that might help people.
And again, I call this a very thorny issue with no easy solution. I do not know how to advise people. Condoms in a marriage? Not for me to say. Procreation? Your freedom. I think we need to think about this collectively, and as individuals. It is the right of the individual to be presented with full and accurate information, and the fact is that condoms are the only contraceptive method that can prevent STIs and HIV. Whether or not individual men and women choose to take that risk, both within and outside of marriage, is an individual choice. And I for one, would strongly support subsidies for HIV treatment, because no one should ever be faulted for getting infected, whether out of ignorance or anything.
“At the end of the day, you are very right that statistics cannot persuade people. I do believe in the role of religious and moral education , or human conscience or anything that might help people.”
you see, people say you religious nut is right lah. next, we are going to argue whose value we live by and whose interpretation of “morality” is right
but before we can even discuss, you already decided to slam….MEN. oi, you got problem with men or what? you kena cheated by men issit? or maybe the problem is you not …EDUCATED enough?
i am a girl. i know also not anyhow no manners go around talk so self righteously. you better learn some manners first lah or people will slam you back.
and, pls lah. have guts to put up every legitimate critical posting if you want to blog or have your say. no courage, dont blog lah.
Hi there,
“Meaning that nearly 90% of the 2000 women surveyed did not really have to be in that position, had they known and practiced contraception effectively.”
Although that is true, I am still gonna be a pain in the arse and suggest that in these 90%, there will be women who went for abortion not because they do not know or not practiced contraception. We have to accept that there could be many other reasons like “I wanted a baby but I found out he was unfaithful. I cannot live with the fact I gonna have his baby.” or “I wanted a baby but now he is gone. I do not think I can support the baby.”
I know you must be thinking “What on earth is this guy trying to say?!” haha. But all I am trying to say is that until all reasons are exhausted, we can never truly know what is the true % of women who went for abortion due to a lack of knowledge of contraception. But having said that, I do agree that they must still be a huge % of such women around. For these women, all I can say is that, they have to be responsible for themselves, no one can help them if they cannot think rationally on having a baby for no good reasons and then aborting it for a lesser reason.
“As for HOW the women contracted HIV, I am qouting our Health Promotion Board
http://www.hpb.gov.sg/hpb/default.asp?pg_id=865&aid=702&altid=0
Because HIV cases in singapore must be reported to the MOH, our statistics and documentation of how patients got infected can be very reliable and representative.”
As I said, I would not argue on statistics or their statements because as you have proven here, these could be verified easily with trusted sources. Again, I must say that the source only states”
Did you know?
* The majority of Singaporean men are infected through sexual contact with casual partners and sex workers.
* The majority of Singaporean women are infected through sex with their husbands or boyfriends.
Note that it only uses majority. We never knew what their definition of majority is. It could be 51% or if PAP would have it, 66.7% haha. And furthermore, It says that women gets it either through their husbands OR boyfriends. What is the percentage of husbands. What is the precentage through boyfriends? If we can determine that, we can safely say that whether most MARRIED women really do LACK knowledge of contraception. Bur pardon me, I tried looking thru the website but found none such statistics. Please point it to me if you do have that.
As for subsidies, I strongly agree with that. The best cure if of course prevention but if things have happened, I would want to see the best efforts put in to help people manage the disease. More can be done really to help people to understand HIV better so that one day HIV patients do not have to hide behind a curtain of shame as they do right now.
why?kena whacked scare discussion already ah? hahahahaaa
HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Hi Siong, Thanks once again for your thoughts and comments.
Yes, I agree with you perfectly, that stats and studies will never uncover the true thoughts and feelings of women undergoing abortions. I believe the decision is never an easy one, which is why I hope people are empowered to prevent themselves from being in that position of having to decide. I perfectly agree with you that at the end of the day, the choice and responsibility is that of the woman’s, and all we can, and must, do, is to provide all the facts available.
Hmm at this moment, i can’t pull out exact studies documenting mode of transmission of HIV to women in Singapore. I heard these figures qouted at the Singapore AIDS Conference. If there are any readers out there who can forward me exact statistical figures, as Siong is asking for, I will be glad to list them here. I suspect WHO might have figures for Asian countries. Perhaps if someone has the time/ has the figures on hand, please post the info here. Siong, I agree that your question is a very valid question to be asking, especially if we were to think about the effective prevention strategies, we ought to know the causes.
That’s what I love about the internet. It enables discussion. You say something, anyone, regardless of education/ job/sex/whatever, can have the chance of challenging, and hence improving, our collective knowlege and thinking. Another thing I love: if i’m too lazy / have no time to dig out figures, I can throw it open to anyone reading this who has the info to come forward and offer it. Please, someone. Thanks!
Hi to cutcutcut,
I do not think its all about “kena whacked scare discussion already”.
The writer has her own opinions and I have mine. Some of mine agrees with her while some of my opinions are meant to bring things into perspective. That does not mean she is wrong and that does not mean I am right. Vice versa.
At the end of the day, a discussion can only be fruitful if both parties agree to disagree. I am sure I will have many things to agree with the writer as many I will disagree with her.
But hey its all a discussion. I am not gonna die if I am proven wrong. So just stick to the spirit of good discussion, shall we hehehe.
Hi Mathia,
to this topic, I have nothing much more to add. I agree with you, there is only so much statistics can do. Honestly, even if you can give me all the statistics now, I still think that ultimately the person is responsible for herself and himself.
And inspite of any statistics or percentage, any cause is worth fighting for as long it matters to one person out there.
So I hope I will have more opinions to contribute in other future discussions. Until then, have a good day.
Hi Siong, Thanks for taking the time to discuss — it’s really heartwarming to know that there are people like you who care enough to do so, and it’s my honour that you chose to discuss this issue here on my site. I really hope that you will not hesitate to comment on future discussions — looking forward in fact = ) And yep, totally agree that any cause is worth fighting for as long as it matters to one person out there.
I also want to thank you for sticking up for me! Really touched! = )
You have a good day too, and hope to have more interactions with you!
Hi Mathia,
yeah I certainly hope so! Cheers.
[...] Discourse – Mathia Lee: Thorny issues with Sex – StaticVariable: Where to – Wayang Party Club: Political space in Singapore unlikely to expand [...]
Hi Mathia, really interesting post here, and on the first point especially it’s interesting to see how reality is distorted by patriarchal theory. People are so obsessed with the dividing line “marriage or not marriage? Traditional family or not traditional family?” when in fact nothing is a substitute for proper education about the simple facts of reproductive health and safe sex.
You might be interested in the Singapore-focused feminist webzine Glass Castle, at http://www.glass-castle.org
Hi Jolene, I’m really honored by your visit and comments on my blog, especially when you make such excellent posts of your own on Glass Castle. Thank you very much for recommending Glass Castle here. I just visited, and I must say that your articles are an eye opener, especially your Wednesday, 10 December 2008 Spot the Missing Words article. It’s very sad when society reduces a human being to an object, because that person is selling a service. We continually see how sex workers, maids, are being objectified even by the most well meaning people.
Recently, when I pointed out in a recent post ( http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/how-is-life-valued-in-court/) when a human trafficker convicted of bringing a 17-yr old foreigner into singapore for the sex trade, was sentenced to only 1 years jail (in contrast to a 19-yr old drug mule with a sick mother who was sentenced to death), a lot of the responses I got was that prostituition does less harm than drugs, and hence the sentence was appropriate. People seem to have ceased seeing sex workers as human, and view sex workers as a product on the same level as drugs.
I applaud your efforts in changing this perception. I noticed too that your latest issue of Spotlight features Tenley Peterson. I’ve had the pleasure and honor of working with her, and I’m glad to see that her efforts in raising awareness of how the US military works with women is gaining attention.
Thanks and I look forward to reading your blog! Perhaps, one day I might have the pleasure of working with you too!
Thanks for your kind words Mathia. I agree with you this kind of objectification is a major issue and what disturbs me is in fact what you said – “well meaning people”, perfectly ordinary people (not sociopaths or monsters as some would like to have it), engage in it all the time. It’s transmitted by perfectly ordinary attitudes, which makes challenging it so much more difficult.
It would be great if we could work together. I actually have a sex education-related project in mind, which could be of interest to you given your experience in training – would you like to email me to discuss the possibility of collaborating on it? Address is glasscastlezine at gmail dot com.