Protesting the Singapore’s naming an orchid after the Prime Minister of Burma.
I am officially shouting out my strongest disgust & disagreement with the Singapore Botanic Gardens naming an orchid after the Prime Minister of Burma.
http://seelanpalay.blogspot.com/2009/03/singaporean-activists-protest-against.html
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/03/great-job-singapore-botanic-gardens/
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Wow, that’s pretty crappy by the Singapore government. Not out of character though. Lot’s of rumours of high level links between the business communities in Burma and Singapore. US is always cracking down on burmese business guys in Singapore (and some Singaporeans). Higher political links too?
What’s new? We deal with North Korea too
What’s the alternative, other than engaging Myanmar and gently persuading them to change?
That’s a really interesting question.
On hindsight, can we imagine honouring Hitler or Stalin, or Mao or Saddam Hussein, as a means of stopping whatever they were doing?
Maybe.
Obama is attempting to engage Iran. Somehow though, it feels quite different from the way we’re engaging Myanmar.
I somehow suspect that with Singapore, it’s more like what AH is saying. That perhaps Myanmar is too good a business partner for us to offend, and at the same time, the world too, is too good a business partner for us to offend, and so we honor both the Myanmar leaders, and we pay lip service to human right advocates.
“Engagement” is a huge failure.
It’s just a way to continue collusion while pretending you’re trying to solve the problem.
I can think of another time when engagement was tried. It was in the 1930s and they called it appeasement.
remember how we kicked out the Burmese activists and left them at the mercy of their government? and this was months after paying lip service to human rights, asking the leaders to move towards democracy.
Alternative?? I think we need stronger civil lobby groups here, we need international action, and we can’t just direct it at the leaders. We need to address the gems trade that is financing these leaders!
In May 2008, Cyclone Nargis hit Myanmar, leaving widespread destruction in its wake. Relief efforts were hampered early on as Myanmar’s ruling junta initially resisted international aid, shocking the world. The United States and France, putting forth the doctrine of Responsibility to Protect (R2P), sent humanitarian assistance on warships! Fortunately, the countries in the region were more sensible. ASEAN was eventually able to persuade Myanmar to accept a tripartite arrangement of assistance involving ASEAN, the United Nations and Myanmar, paving the way for humanitarian relief efforts within the country.
I would say yes to international pressure. But I don’t believe that the grandstanding and posturing of the West is particularly helpful. There needs to be a deliberate and careful approach of dialogue and encouragement, rather than pushing them to open up (to which they would simply retreat back into their isolationist shell). This is the approach that the United Nations is taking, through the Good Offices Mission of UN Special Envoy Professor Ibrahim Gambari. The military junta needs to be persuaded to become part of the solution. The upcoming elections in 2010, while ostensibly rigged in favour of the junta, would be a tiny step forward.
Heh… I know that what I just wrote probably got me expelled from the liberal side of this debate.
And I don’t quite get the 1930s appeasement analogy. Nazi Germany was an expansionistic power challenging the status quo and balance of power in Europe. Myanmar is quite content to live in its own shell and stew in its own misery. It has been fighting an endless series of civil wars with its ethnic minorities for more than 60 years.
More food for thought… How should we deal with the world’s bad guys? Samantha Powers tells us all about it.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/samantha_power_on_a_complicated_hero.html
I agree with Fargoal. Actually I wanted to write similar stuff (i.e. the Cyclone Nargis issue).
Would you listen to your friends?
Or would you listen to people who keep antagonising you?
Would you accept un-conditional assistance from your friends?
Or would you accept assistance from people who give you what you need first, followed by talking terms later?
Suppose Myanmar goes into isolation due to international pressure for whatever issues you want to throw in.
What can international action do? What can civil lobby groups do? NOTHING or invade and change the government.
If you had a classmate who had isolated himself/herself, you would know how difficult it is to talk to them and get their cooperation. Isn’t this all too similar?
Who knows the individuals in the military junta? Who knows their habits, their character, their personalities? Who knows what drives them to do what they do?
Many wouldn’t want to know, many wouldn’t want to care. Because many treat them as a non-human entity. That is why many cannot “engage” them effectively. Sadly, many activists does that.
On the other hand, Aung San Suu Kyi is treated and engaged as a human entity. See the difference?
If one is not treated as a human entity (e.g. some maids in Singapore), what is the most common action-reaction response we see?
Considering practicality, the current approach by the United Nations and ASEAN (as stated by Fargoal) is most ideal.
Frm Agagooga:
http://www.google.com.sg/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=EZE&q=+site:www.singapore-window.org+burma+singapore+drugs
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0311/p01s02-wosc.html
Things that I really HATE about Singapore :
1. Our direct involvement in supporting the criminal govt of Myanmar
2. Our direct involvement in propping up the human trafficking-prostitution trade in Batam
3. Our direct involvement in making slaves out of migrant labour
4. Our criminalisation of gay people
There are things i bitch about.
And then there are things i simply cannot live with.
Wait, I know about the first and in the third we’re partially complicit (by having poor protection) but how does the second work out?
#2
This was something I learnt about from a documentary film screened at last year’s U60. It was made by an NTU student team.
However, you don’t really have to watch it to figure out what was going on.
You’ve heard about Sg men going over to Batam (sorry, initial typo. Batam, not Bintan) ya? We’ve got ferry loads going over, even NGOs hang out there to distribute condoms.
Given Batam’s strategic location, and the purchasing power of our men compared to the Indonesians, who do you think make up 90% of the customers there? Certainly not the americans or australians.
And given that kind of money making opportunity, the corruption that goes on in indonesia, the ease of transporting girls from poor rural areas from other parts of indonesia to Batam, the poverty that drives parents to sell their daughters, the 13-14 year olds that are in demand and are available, what do you think is happening? And given the kind of society that Indonesia is, do you think that these 13-14 year olds from rural villages are somehow willing workers, rather than being led to think they would be provided waitressing jobs in the big cities?
http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/my-singapore-my-calcutta/
Ah right.
I thought you were only talking about the government.
Ooh I noticed you edited your comment to include #4. Technically we do criminalise gay people, but we also criminalise people who sing obscene songs in public – what matters is whether they enforce the law.
From the article link by Agagooga:
…… The Chinese … supply all the weapons and much of the investment [to Burma] ……
…… China is famously averse to interfering in other country’s internal affairs ……
…… China is trying harder to be constructive ……
…… They (China) don’t care about democracy or a political opening up…… They want an economic opening up, which is not a bad start……
And this is how things gets done, how things get changed.
…… Burma is supported by China. End of story. We need to liberate that country not only from its own military junta but also from the imperialist Chinese ……
=> While these statements get you nowhere.
—————————————————–
As for Batam… If I have the money, I would be there to buy as many 13-14 year olds as I can. Get them educated, start some industry and give them jobs.
I wonder if the stick-in-the-mud activists ever considered buying people (including subsequent supportive actions for their livelihood) so as to free them.
—————————————————-
Mathia:
You are hating at the wrong place/thing? For #2 and #3……
Is Singapore (the State) responsible for propping up the human trafficking-prostitution trade in Batam? Or is it the uncles you see at your neighbourhood kopitiam and possibly your colleagues, employers, friends, friends of friends, who are creating the demand?
Is Singapore (the State) responsible for making slaves out of migrant labour? Or is it the uncles and aunties around your neighbourhood, possibly your colleagues, employers, friends, friends of friends, who ill-treat and exploit migrant labour?
“I thought you were only talking about the government.”
It’s all about both the govt (who is part of the peopl) and the rest of the peopl too right?
With our migrant labour issues, there are the exploiters (the construction industry, the homes who employ maids), and there are the lax/un-enforced laws.
With Batam, there are the exploiters (the human traffickers, the customers), and there are the laws which are un-enforced.
”
Commercial sex with minor under 18 outside Singapore
376C. —(1) Any person, being a citizen or a permanent resident of Singapore, who does, outside Singapore, any act that would, if done in Singapore, constitute an offence under section 376B, shall be guilty of an offence.
[51/2007]
(2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable to the same punishment to which he would have been liable had he been convicted of an offence under section 376B.
[51/2007]
[NZ CA 1961, s. 144A]
Tour outside Singapore for commercial sex with minor under 18
376D. —(1) Any person who —
(a) makes or organises any travel arrangements for or on behalf of any other person with the intention of facilitating the commission by that other person of an offence under section 376C, whether or not such an offence is actually committed by that other person;
(b) transports any other person to a place outside Singapore with the intention of facilitating the commission by that other person of an offence under section 376C, whether or not such an offence is actually committed by that other person; or
(c) prints, publishes or distributes any information that is intended to promote conduct that would constitute an offence under section 376C, or to assist any other person to engage in such conduct,
shall be guilty of an offence.
[51/2007]
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1)(c), the publication of information means publication of information by any means, whether by written, electronic, or other form of communication.
[51/2007]
(3) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 10 years, or with fine, or with both.
[51/2007]
[NZ CA 1961, s. 144C] “
We sentence to death a 19-year old drug trafficker with a sick mother from across the causeway.
We give a $8000 fine to a human trafficker who brings in a 17-year old for sex, and up the sentence to 1 year on appeal.
http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/how-is-life-valued-in-court/
http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2008/11/16/human-trafficking-an-ignored-injustice-in-singapore/
Criminalisation of gay people?
As long as the laws are in place, outright humiliating and degrading discriminatory behavior can be publically practised and condoned (for eg. Thio’s anti-gay-sex parliamentary speech). And any activity / educational programme that tries to educate other wise would be criminal as well. Enforcement? They might not go round arresting gay people, but they sure do prevent activities/educational programmes that aim to de-stigmatise homosexuality from being conducted! We’re not allowed to educate people, and then they say the law must be in place because that’s a reflection of societal values. I wonder why!
I really wonder why we spend so much of our legal resources on people who wear T-shirts with banned animals.
And do not even acknowlege outright abuses of human beings.
One of these days, I would like to get hold of the film documenting the Batam girls. bring a portable projector to the ferry terminal, and play the show on repeat mode.
CM: You know why China is trying harder to be constructive? Because of international pressure. Without international pressure they would’ve blocked Security Council attempts to censure Sudan for the Genocide in Darfur.
Mathia: I’m not familiar with (and can’t find information on) the human trafficking case, so I’ll just say that while I do disagree with our (and virtually all countries’) drug policy, it doesn’t mean that the punishment for human trafficking should be upped to approach that for drugs.
Section 294 of the Penal Code:
Obscene songs
294. Whoever, to the annoyance of others —
(a) does any obscene act in any public place; or
(b) sings, recites or utters any obscene song, ballad or words in or near any public place,
shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 months, or with fine, or with both.
[Indian PC 1860, s. 294]
The mere existence of a law does not result in discrimination. Contrawise, the non-existence of a law does not result in non-discrimination. Although homosexuality is legal in the American South, this doesn’t mean gays aren’t discriminated against.
Even if homosexuality were not illegal, this would not change societal attitudes towards homosexuality that would prevent activities/educational programmes that aim to de-stigmatise homosexuality from being conducted.
More:
http://gssq.blogspot.com/2007/10/in-land-of-blind-one-eyed-man-is-stoned.html
Why we shouldn’t campaign for 377A’s repeal
“The attorney general filed suit against Melanie Kirkpatrick, a senior editorial page editor of the Wall Street Journal itself, 15,339 kilometers away, in kind of the legal equivalent of Kim Jong Il deciding to launch an intercontinental ballistic missile because the powers that be weren’t paying enough attention to him. In a way, it’s reassuring that the government could reach across 21 years to pick my name out of the mists of history. It probably means they are vigilant enough to continue to pursue Mas Selamat Kastari… He won’t get away, if the police force can take the time away from pursuing the press and the opposition to look him up.”
Don’t mess with Sudan… This year, Sudan is the Chair of the powerful G77 bloc.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/21/AR2009022101750_pf.html
Mathia:
What is your current understanding of the inter-country framework for enforcing “tour outside Singapore for commercial sex with minor under 18″?
In comparison, what is the current inter-country framework for enforcing drug trafficking?
How much resources do you think is required to setup and maintain this framework? Do you have a cheaper, and more efficient framework so that such laws can be enforced with minimal manpower (not enough people want to do law-enforcement, what to do? do you have practical solution for this as well?) allocated?
Suppose somehow we can enforce these laws. The next issue is, how to feed the Indonesians who had the intention to sell their daughters. If the poorer Indonesians have the means, do you think they will sell their daughters? If you (or any activists) can provide sustainable living for these Indonesians, then that will solve the whole issue, right?
Once you have solved that, the issue left is kidnapping for human trafficking. Now, who is more likely to pursue kidnappers? Starving person or well-provided person?
And how do you persuade the Indonesian authorities for change? Being an activists? Or being their buddy-buddy-friend-friend?
And how do you propose to effectively enforce laws with regards to migrant labor?
I really wonder why some people choose to wear T-shirts with banned animals to antagonize the system and cause much legal resources to be diverted.
Prostitution is an industry with thousands of years of history, probably the oldest industry in the entire human history. Unless you are draconian about it, it will always be there.
For your own safety… playing the show on repeat mode at the ferry terminal will probably get you “bundled” and “fast-tracked” into the industry.
Agagooga:
Every country has their own agenda, including those “applying pressure”. There will be certain issues and certain countries where international pressure works well but it is not for all cases.
There will also be cases where the supposed “international pressure” is simply No-Action-Talk-Only, and the diplomats and ambassadors of all countries know it.
How much do you think China can be pressured? How much did China “give-up” under international pressure so as to TRY to be constructive?
How much did China “give-up” under international pressure over the Sudan issue? Is Sudan so important to China?
How many countless other issues did China not give-in to international pressure?
Hi there,
Interesting, I`ll quote it on my site later.
Thank you
Eremeeff