Mathia Lee ~ Plans and Preoccupations

Genetic Sex Change : Real or hype?

Posted in Sexuality, Social Commentary by mathialee on March 3, 2010

IMO, the public puts too much faith in science, largely due to the way science news is written for the laymen. News that stopping a single gene, Foxl2, from functioning converts adult ovaries into testes, caused much stir and hope in the transgender community.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/genetics/article6952050.ece

“December 11, 2009, by Hannah Devlin

Scientists find single ‘on-off’ gene that can change gender traits –

Scientists have identified the gene (Foxl2)  that keeps females female. An international team found that the action of a single gene is all that stops females from developing male physical traits, including testes and facial hair.

When this gene was artificially “switched off” in adult female mice their ovaries began to turn into testes and they started to produce a level of testosterone found in healthy male mice.

The discovery could eventually revolutionise gender reassignment therapy and improve treatments for babies who are born with a mixed gender.”

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(I have reproduced a more accurate, less-hyped-up news report of the same scientific discovery here http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2009/12/16/genetic-basis-for-sexual-identity-at-the-cellular-level/ )

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Lay readers tend to make 3 common, basic false assumptions when reading science news like this

Assumption 1: All information that is known about the health/biological condition is reported in that one article they are reading

Truth: Science experiments tend to look at one single aspect of one single variable at a time. They then make a single report based on these set of experiments (called 1 publishable unit). To know all that is known, one has to trawl through the ENTIRE database of scientific reports. (my favourite database search engine is www.pubmed.com ; do a ‘ Foxl2 ‘ keyword search to see everything known about Foxl2 )

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Assumption 2: Everything about the health/biological condition or the gene you’re interested in, has already been discovered. We have COMPLETE knowledge.

Truth: Far from it. Science is not something where there are model answers written at the back of your workbook. Biological organisms are not a computer designed by humans where at least the designer knows something. No one knows the boundaries of Biological science, and one needs always to remember that.

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Assumption 3: Observations of mice and other organisms are reflective of human beings.

Truth: SOME observations of mice and other organisms are reflective of human beings. This is the reason why drug and therapy development has to go through Phase 1, 2 and 3 of human trials AFTER successful animal experiments. 9 in 10 successful animal experiments DON”T become successful Phase 3 human trials.

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In this specific case of Foxl2, what scientists discovered in this latest report was this:

When you stop Foxl2 from functioning in mice, “any developed eggs in the ovary DIED. Follicles, which eventually grow into eggs, slowly transformed into cells that LOOKED LIKE Sertoli cells, which produce sperm in the testes.”

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LOOKED LIKE is not equal to ARE.

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The actual report made by the scientists never said that “The discovery could eventually revolutionise gender reassignment therapy and improve treatments for babies who are born with a mixed gender.”

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The scientists SPECULATED from their discovery, “they might also have important medical implications for the understanding and treatment of some disorders of sexual development in children and premature menopause in women.” And “has important implications for reproductive biology, in particular the treatment of sex differentiation disorders in children, as well as premature ovarian failure and female menopause, both of which are associated with declining estrogen levels and occasional signs of masculinization.”

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Now, what are these disorders in women and children the scientists are talking about? Here’s more information on Foxl2 , and the problems Foxl2 malfunctioning is associated with :

-       Decreased Foxl2 is associated with aggressive ovarian cancer in children
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430735
(Sure you want to mess with Foxl2 for gender re-assignment? I’ll stick with hormonal therapy)

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-       Over-active Foxl2 is associated with aggressive testis cancer in children, where the testis cancer cells looks like ovarian cells
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18721930
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-       Foxl2 mutations and abnormalities cause a genetic condition called BPES http://www.bpes.org.uk/index_Informationadvice.htm . The symptoms are given on that page. They’re not pleasant. In both humans and mice, Foxl2 abnormality causes facial feature abnormalities.  Another one of the symptoms is that the ovaries malfunction.
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However, it is ONLY when ovaries malfunction due to BPES that Foxl2 is involved. When ovaries malfunction in non-BPES patients, Foxl2 is rarely the reason.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15181179
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-       And because Sox9 was the gene I worked on for 5 long, hard years of PhD, I shall also mention that Foxl2 feminises cells by shutting off Sox9. Sox9 makes the cells males. When you destroy Foxl2, Sox9 is no longer shut off, and the cells turn male. Incidentally, Sox9 abnormalities result in fetuses dying before birth because Sox9 is needed for proper development of the heart, brain, skeleton, etc etc. The rare children who can be born because the Sox9 abnormality is mild, suffer from severe skeletal distortions, breathing problems, sex-reversal, mental retardation etc. They usually die in childhood. Now would I ever want to mess around with a gene that stops Sox9 from functioning!??!

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[Disclaimer:

In my attempt to make technicalities accessible to laymen, I may not have presented info correctly. Please feel free to leave comments to correct errors that you find. Also, if any part is unclear, please let me know, so that i can correct it too. Further questions welcomed too ; i will do my best to address]

23 Responses

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  1. Heng-Cheong Leong said, on March 3, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Hmmm… “the public puts too much faith in science” as practiced by scientists, or science as reported by media?

  2. mathialee said, on March 3, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Good point!!!

    Both, IMO

    It’s already tricky enough addressing media-reported science, without even going into the practice.

    I recently watched the movie “And the Band Played On” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_the_Band_Played_On_(film)
    about the early days of scientific discovery of the HIV.

    It’s SO typical of what goes on — the politics, the massaging of data, the big egos, etc etc

    I’ve come to the conclusion that in any, ANY, human organisation, there will be good and evil people, and in any person, there are good and evil …. *pensive stare*

    ( the only part about the film that’s not realistic was when they received a phone call saying their french collaborators found the virus……. The epidemiology team broke out into claps and cheers. That never happens, except at birthday celebrations. The usual response : “really meh???? show me the data”

  3. Solo Bear said, on March 3, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Mathia, I am glad you made your point from the angle of an expert. Recapping, here are the 3 myths you highlighted.
    ===
    “Assumption 1: All information that is known about the health/biological condition is reported in that one article they are reading

    Truth: Science experiments tend to look at one single aspect of one single variable at a time. They then make a single report based on these set of experiments (called 1 publishable unit). To know all that is known, one has to trawl through the ENTIRE database of scientific reports. (my favourite database search engine is http://www.pubmed.com; do a ‘ Foxl2 ‘ keyword search to see everything known about Foxl2 )
    .
    Assumption 2: Everything about the health/biological condition or the gene you’re interested in, has already been discovered. We have COMPLETE knowledge.

    Truth: Far from it. Science is not something where there are model answers written at the back of your workbook. Biological organisms are not a computer designed by humans where at least the designer knows something. No one knows the boundaries of Biological science, and one needs always to remember that.
    .
    Assumption 3: Observations of mice and other organisms are reflective of human beings.

    Truth: SOME observations of mice and other organisms are reflective of human beings. This is the reason why drug and therapy development has to go through Phase 1, 2 and 3 of human trials AFTER successful animal experiments. 9 in 10 successful animal experiments DON”T become successful Phase 3 human trials.
    ===

    If you think carefully, doesn’t this this reply also apply to the (mis)conception that there is a “gay gene”?

    Assumption 1: Like the above, gays tend to cite isolated studies.
    Assumption 2: Again like the above, gays tend to conclude that is all to know about “gay genes”.
    Assumption 3: Gays tend to cite studies on animal behaviour that exhibit homo tendencies and conclude that gay is natural and it originates from genes.

    As a PhD Science student, if you can see clearly the issue that one study doesn’t mean a conclusion can be made, why don’t you make it clear to the LGBT community (since they take you as someone of authority in this field), that any conclusion drawn from “gay gene” studies is not (yet) conclusive?

  4. mathialee said, on March 3, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Dear Solo Bear.
    Good question you asked.

    That sexual orientation has a strong biological component is well accepted. Applying what I said about not using isolated examples, but looking at all the known info up to date, there is strong consensus that there is a biological component, and that people do not consciously choose their sexual orientation. Of course, because one can never assume complete knowledge, the most accurate statement to make would be “There is strong consensus within scientific literature that sexual orientation is not a product of conscious choice”

    What is NOT conclusive, are
    - whether this biological component is heriditary
    - exactly which genes are involved
    - how the genes interact to affect sexual orientation
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16174346?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2
    J Biosoc Sci. 2005 Sep;37(5):555-67.
    Biological and psychosocial determinants of male and female human sexual orientation.
    James WH.

    When scientists talk about a condition being genetic or environemental, they are in NO way implying involuntary vs choice.

    A classic eg.:
    Skin color:
    When you look at a person and ask, is skin color genetic or environmental, one can argue both ways
    - the person is tan because he’s a Malay, or a Indian-Chinese mix etc
    - the person is tan even though he is Scandinavian, because he swims 8 hours a day in Singapore without sunscreen

    Is skin color biological ?
    of course. Skin pigments are beyond one’s control

    Can you choose?
    not really

    Is it genetic or environmental?
    Hard to say

    So.
    It’s consensual that sexual orientation has a biological basis; whether its a genetic biological basis or environmental biological basis is the question.

    That said, it is true that how one CHOOSES to express one’s orientation is a different story.

    Humans have a biological instinct to survive: People can be convinced to be suicide terrorists
    Humans have a biological instinct to eat: People can diet till death

    Some people say that humans are genetically promiscuous —- is that a reason to sanction adultry? obviously not!
    Some people claim they are biologically predisposed to paedophilia (now psychology is the biology of the mind and behavior) — should we sanction paedophillia? obviously not!

    So to me, I argue that homosexuality is biological, and natural, only because i want to be scientifically accurate.

    Where the law or societal conventions are concern, i don’t even see this whole discussion about the genetic/biological basis as even relavent.

    it is IRRELAVANT

    Where law or societal conventions are concerned, there is only one question :
    Does the behavior harm anyone involuntarily?

    The answer is No, not any more than a heterosexual male or female’s behavior does. Homosexual promiscuoity does not harm anyone anymore than a promiscuous heterosexual male or female’s does.

    Sanction one, and you are obliged to sanction both.

    Where HIV rates are concerned, i would argue that unsafe heterosexual sex is even more harmful than homosexual.

    Why?
    -Because a lot of heterosexual sex transmission occur from males to females, where females have no power to negotiate (because of financial dependance, or societal pressures, or fear, or marital rape )etc

    - Because there is a chance of pregnancy, and hence a risk to a totally innocent child.

  5. Solo Bear said, on March 3, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Mathia:
    >>That sexual orientation has a strong biological component is well accepted.
    >>

    Me:
    By whom? There is NO consensus in the medical field for that. So are you not guilty of Assumption number one, just because there are “some studies”?

    >>What is NOT conclusive, are
    - whether this biological component is heriditary
    - exactly which genes are involved
    - how the genes interact to affect sexual orientation
    >>

    Me:
    What is ALSO not conclusive is that sexual orientation has a strong biological component. You are still guilty of your own declared Assumption #1.

    >>When scientists talk about a condition being genetic or environemental, they are in NO way implying involuntary vs choice.
    >>

    Me:
    I am not even touching on that. Why take that path? You are still stuck on your Assumption #1, where you take it as a confirmed theory that sexual orientation is biological.

    >>That said, it is true that how one CHOOSES to express one’s orientation is a different story.
    >>

    Me:
    Again, I am not even going to discuss that, because that is not the point of contention here. What is in contention is your claim sexual orientation is biological just because some studies claim that. The fact is that we don’t have a consensus amongst scientists, doctors and biologists on that.

    >>Humans have a biological instinct to survive: People can be convinced to be suicide terrorists
    >>

    Me:
    You are running off course. Having problems that you are guilty of indulging Assumption #1?

    >>Where the law or societal conventions are concern, i don’t even see this whole discussion about the genetic/biological basis as even relavent.
    it is IRRELAVANT
    >>

    Me:
    I agree! I did not use the argument that there is a gay gene. It is the gay community that does that. All along I have been arguing that gay affinity is acquired and/or choice.

    So my point is to remind you that since you are able to argue Assumption #1 that isolated studies cannot be taken as confirmation, why don’t remind the gays that their idea of the gay gene is confirmed by studies is also faulty?

    >>Where law or societal conventions are concerned, there is only one question :
    Does the behavior harm anyone involuntarily?
    >>

    Me:
    Why are you taking that path? Again, are you trying to evade the point that the existence of the gay gene is just an example of Assumption #1?

    I await your evidence to support that the opinion that sexual orientation is biological, is an accepted fact amongst all scientists, biologists and doctors – and not just an opinion of just some parties.

  6. mathialee said, on March 3, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Solo Bear

    What are you talking about there being no consensus in the medical literature?

    I gave you a review reference, please look at it, before making groundless assertions that there is no evidence. Where is your evidence for there being no consensus? Point me to the critical reviews, not pseudo experiments made by groups with vested interest. I want peer reviewed critical reviews. What’s a review? A review looks at the extensive , comprehensive , total literature available, and makes a critical analysis of it.

    Sorry i don’t like to pull jargon, but you force me to.

    Here , go read this.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16174346?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2
    J Biosoc Sci. 2005 Sep;37(5):555-67.
    Biological and psychosocial determinants of male and female human sexual orientation.
    James WH.

  7. mathialee said, on March 3, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    I’m saying this for the upteenth time ,and i’ll say this again

    Whether there is a biological component is very simple to test :
    Can you, as a heterosexual or homosexual, decide on wimp and fancy, whether you want to be attacted to male or female? If you can , the definition for you is, bi-sexual.
    ==================================

    Solo bear,

    >>When scientists talk about a condition being genetic or environemental, they are in NO way implying involuntary vs choice.
    >>

    Me:
    I am not even touching on that. Why take that path? You are still stuck on your Assumption #1, where you take it as a confirmed theory that sexual orientation is biological.

    If it’s involuntary, it is biological!!!
    Name me one example of something that is involuntary and non-biological

    And please don’t say things like putting a gun to your head.

  8. Solo Bear said, on March 3, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Mathia:
    >>What are you talking about there being no consensus in the medical literature?
    >>

    Me:
    What are YOU talking that there is consensus?

    >>Where is your evidence for there being no consensus?
    >>

    Me:
    Asking for a negative? It is either YOU prove there is consensus or you don’t claim you have.

    >>Point me to the critical reviews, not pseudo experiments made by groups with vested interest. I want peer reviewed critical reviews. What’s a review? A review looks at the extensive , comprehensive , total literature available, and makes a critical analysis of it.
    Sorry i don’t like to pull jargon, but you force me to.
    Here , go read this.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16174346?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2
    J Biosoc Sci. 2005 Sep;37(5):555-67.
    Biological and psychosocial determinants of male and female human sexual orientation.
    James WH.
    >>

    Me:
    Yeah? Is that what you call consensus? That’s just among some of the parties that claim sexual orientation is biological, isn’t it? Consensus would be when the whole biological, medical professional bodies of the world agree. Like all agree that schizo can be inherited. All agree that cancer can be genetically linked. You don’t have pockets of medical bodies that claim otherwise.

    So? Where is the CONSENSUS? Or are you ASSUMING that there is none? Which makes you guilty of Assumption #1?

    You can test it out. Get any medical practitioner in Singapore to put his medical professional on the line, by declaring that homosexuality is caused by genes. If there is consensus in the medical world, you won’t have a problem finding any doctor who is willing to do that, no?

    I can get any doc to declare that schizo can be transmitted through genes. How about you getting a doc to declare the same for homo?

    Note that I can do it because there is CONSENSUS in the medical world that schizo can be inherited. Note that you cannot do it because there is NO CONSENSUS for homo.

    >> I’m saying this for the upteenth time ,and i’ll say this again
    Whether there is a biological component is very simple to test :
    Can you, as a heterosexual or homosexual, decide on wimp and fancy, whether you want to be attacted to male or female? If you can , the definition for you is, bi-sexual.
    >>

    Ah, what happened to the Assumption #1 test now? All forgotten? What is so scientific about that test?

    Just in case you forgot, your above argument can be used by pedophiles and or bestiality engagers too. Don’t say I’m trying to relate homo to that, but that’s what actually it is, no? Sexual Orientation, remember?

    >>If it’s involuntary, it is biological!!!
    Name me one example of something that is involuntary and non-biological
    >>

    Me:
    The belief that a god exists. It is either you believe he exists or he doesn’t. You can’t force it, you can’t volunteer to believe or disbelieve.

    Btw what is so scientific about your example? If you want to be unscientific, no problemo. Then you shouldn’t have put up your article about what constitutes a scientific conclusion in your main post.

  9. [...] Genetic Sex Change : Real or hype? « Mathia Lee ~ Plans and Preoccupations [...]

  10. wang said, on March 4, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Mathia

    Your own study states as belows some mens’ genes which predispose that means tendency not destiny and it is not for all (keu word some).
    Further, it does not seem to be found yet for those of female gender any genetic markers.

    Further, it adds “The active ones are driven more by hormones and the passive ones by psychosocial factors”

    So basically some of the passive could per your own study be returned to normal heterosexual behaviour.

    Are you not guily of your own preferred assumptions.

    5. Some homosexual men have genes that predispose to their sexual orientation. 6. The same may apply to some lesbians, but such genes have not, as far as I know, been identified. 7. People (of both sexes) who engage in same-sex sexual behaviour may be classified simultaneously in two ways, viz (1) ‘active’ vs ‘passive’ and (2) those who do and those who do not engage (or consider engaging) in sex with members of the opposite sex. Ex hypothesi, some of the ‘active’ ones initiate some of the ‘passive’ ones. The active ones are driven more by hormones and the passive ones by psychosocial factors

    Unless you are saying that everybody is a slave to their genes.

    Regards

  11. mathialee said, on March 4, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    of course i’m guilty of my own assumptions

    that was my point

    my point was not that authors should write without bias, because that’s impossible

    my point was that readers should always read while asking what the bias and assumptions the authors have

    in reading any scientific writing, or religious writing, or political writing or history, or textbooks , or anything at all, one has always got to look at the assumptions and bias of the author

    My point is that there is NO SUCH THING as a bias-free, perfectly objective piece of writing in this world

  12. mathialee said, on March 4, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    In fact, people should question why in the original paper, the scientists have made the speculation “they might also have important medical implications for the understanding and treatment of some disorders of sexual development in children and premature menopause in women.” And “has important implications for reproductive biology, in particular the treatment of sex differentiation disorders in children, as well as premature ovarian failure and female menopause, both of which are associated with declining estrogen levels and occasional signs of masculinization.”

    without making a link to these health priorities and potential revenue-generating treatment options, would the support they get from investors, publisher’s , laymen, etc be as high???

    there’s a reason why such research tends to have higher impact factors than say, mating behavior in nearly-extinct south american unheard of bugs……

    (apologies to people interested in bugs. Am completely irrational and biased when it comes to bugs. I think they should all be dead, or at least out of my room)

  13. [...] Discourse – The Temple Of Thoughts 3: The Singaporean Attitude (And what can be done) – Mathia Lee: Genetic Sex Change : Real or hype? – Sex sells, so does Politics: After the Romanian, now a Saudi Arabian attack – Balderdash: MFA [...]

  14. Joe Lee said, on March 5, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Here is an article related to one of your causes – better treatment of AIDS patients. Our treatment of the sick is sometimes no better than in developing countries.

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-04/hiv-discoverer-criticizes-singapore-for-lack-of-free-treatment.html
    ————————–
    HIV Discoverer Criticizes Singapore for Lack of Free Treatment

    By Simeon Bennett

    March 5 (Bloomberg) — The lack of free testing and treatment for HIV in Singapore is hindering progress on controlling the spread of the virus in the city-state, said Francoise Barre-Sinoussi, winner of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Medicine for her co-discovery of the virus that causes AIDS.

    “The stigma, the fact that they have to pay for everything, it’s the worst conditions for stimulating people to be tested and treated,” Barre-Sinoussi, 62, said in an interview at the French embassy in Singapore today. “The numbers they announce are probably much lower than the numbers they have.”

    New HIV infections in the nation of 4.6 million people rose to 456 in 2008 from 242 in 2003, according to the health ministry. In France, which has 64 million people, new cases fell to 6,940 from 8,930 over the same period, data presented at an AIDS conference last month show.

    Singapore’s government has opened more anonymous testing clinics, boosted HIV education programs and produced a soap opera to curb new infections of HIV, which have doubled in the past 10 years, even as the spread of the virus slows in neighboring Malaysia and Thailand.

    Treatment can cost as much as S$1,500 ($1,073) a month in Singapore, said Stuart Koe, chief executive officer of Fridae.com, Asia’s largest gay Web site. The government said in January it would subsidize HIV treatment for patients who can’t afford it.

    An anonymous HIV test costs S$30, according to the Web site of Action for AIDS, which runs Singapore’s biggest anonymous testing clinic.

    ‘Difficult to Accept’

    “Coming from a country where everything is free, it’s difficult to accept,” Barre-Sinoussi said. “The situation is even worse than in developing countries not far from here. In Cambodia, everything is free.”

  15. mathialee said, on March 5, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Wow Joe Lee
    thanks for this article

  16. Wy said, on March 7, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    Hmm… Interesting discussion on consensus. I guess what Solo Bear is saying is that we need EVERYONE in the community to agree to call it a consensus; a simple majority won’t be considered as consensus.

    But the fact remains that there can and will always be dissident to everyone single claim. So if we can’t conclusively prove any claim, why then can we conclusively push the blame to a specific group?

    Agree to disagree. This world is so filled with hatred that some bears have to live a solitary life. So people, let’s welcome solo bear with big hugs and warm welcomes so he/she knows that he/she is not alone. We’re a community. One that is diverse, but still united. lol.

  17. Wy said, on March 8, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Oh, on disputes and claims vis-a-vis consensus, here’s something interesting

    http://disputefinder.cs.berkeley.edu/

    DisputeFinder is a program developed by UC Berkeley that allows you to look at both sides of a disputed claim and evaluate the facts.

    From the FAQ:
    Isn’t Everything Disputed?

    Yes. To some extent, everything is disputed. Our aim is not to tell you about everything that is disputed by anybody. Our aim is to let you know when you read something that disagrees with an opinion expressed by a source that you would take seriously.

    If a random blogger disagrees with what you are reading, then that probably isn’t very interesting, but if a newspaper you trust disagrees then you might want to know. Similarly, you might want to know if an article your best friend agreed with disagrees with what you are reading.

    This is why we have the vote up/vote down buttons on each of the argument sources that we show you for a claim. If you like a source then vote it up. If you don’t like it then vote it down.

    Right now, this technology doesn’t function all that well, but we are working hard to make it awesome.

    Maybe someone will wanna try to see the disputes concerning sexuality vis-a-vis the nature/nurture debate.

  18. JoeLee said, on March 8, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Mathia,

    The Today actually had an article on the issue today. They discussed it at length but let out the part where the good doc said we are no better than some developed countries. One AIDS activist said that giving out the AIDS drugs free may not have net economic gains because there are side effects and so on.

    Dr Francoise actually said that there is sufficient evidence to establish that free treatment and free tests will lead to containment of the spread of AIDS. If this is true, our govt is very unpragmatic and ideological in its approach to insist on making the sick pay. The cost estimates based on the numbers comes in at about $11M per yr- this is what our GIC/Temasek can lose in 2 minutes and what our ERPs collect in just one rush hour. It is so unconscionable and we are so powerless to change this. What can we do?

  19. mathialee said, on March 8, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Joe Lee

    we don’t even have subsidised treatment, what’ more, free treatment?

    but we came so close to having it subsidised…..
    see http://mathialee.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/hiv-knowing-your-real-risk/

    In the Dr Francoise article, my personal suspicion is that the activist might have been half-qouted. Because all other disease in Singapore are subsidised (no such thing as free treatment), it would be fairer to campaign for subsidised HIV treatment here too, because why should HIV be the exception to be free? So my suspicion is that most activists would campaign to make it subsidised like other diseases, rather than free. Now the subsidies are ZERO, while all other disease treatments have SOME subsidies. But i may be wrong about the misqouting though….. not sure.

    What can we do as laymen?
    i think we can take the initiative to find out more about why HIV should be subsidised, so that we can correct our friends in a rational manner, when we find that they have prejudiced misconceptions.

    Hopefully, if most people support subsidised treatment, the govt will one day listen. i know many people right now think we should not subsidise, because it is their fault, and they are immoral people who deserve to die.

    However, smokers and people who don’t exercise probably contribute to their heart diseases, and people who speed contribute to their car accidents. Yet, we don’t say that ambulances should not help those with heart diseases, or traffic accidents caused by people who speed.
    we don’t say that we should stop subsidies for heart diseases, or traffic accidents caused by people who speed.

  20. JoeLee said, on March 9, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    The activist was from Action for AIDS and what he said was ‘free treatment subject healthcare system to abuses and may not translate to long term economic benefits. The activist is Lionel Lee. You probably know him.

    Even if he is fighting for subsidized care instead of free care. What he said about free medical care is not true. The number 1 heathcare system is in France where treatment is free and in US where they make people pay a lot, there are many problems that is why Obama has to step in to fix the mess – here the sick are abused for profits!

    Last weekend it was reported in the papers that our hospitals are overcrowded due to insufficient capacity. The minister Khaw has now encourage people to go to Malaysia for treatment where it is cheaper by freeing medisave for this. The Online Citizen linked this move to huge losses in UBS by GIC – so they need to create surpluses in medishield so the conspiracy goes.

    As long as it helps them deny subsidies and save cost, the govt plays moral police. Single parents cannot get subsidised housing, AIDS patients cannot get subsidised care. Prematured babies have no insurancel coverage.

    There are plenty of holes to fix but healthcare policies are geared towards saving govt expenditure.

    I don’t think we can get serious changes as long as we are under this govt.

  21. mathialee said, on March 9, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Joe Lee

    as long as NGOs here cannot get sufficient funding from private / man-on-the-street funding, NGOs will always have to depend on govt grants. As you can imagine, recepients often have to be aligned to donor messages to get sustained funding

  22. Lui said, on March 19, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    NATO commander says gays make cowardly soldiers:

    Gays in Dutch Military Cripples Readiness

    But, hey, he’s just a US General and commander of the NATO Forces, so he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    Right? Right?

  23. Bjork Sigrid Lund said, on March 18, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    I thing like this of cause takes a lot of further research and developement before it can be applied to transgender people, but the question is wheter such reasearch is at all on the agenda of scientists and politicians?
    Statements like “Sure you want to mess with Foxl2 for gender re-assignment?” is symptomatic. It builds on a subconcious feeling in western society; “Dont mess with creation or we will go straigth to hell” It is a feeling that effect even people who dont consider them selves religious because it is a part of society.
    If proper research is done the problems that come up along the way will be fixed in some way or another. It is just a question of money. Discurrageing such research on an arguement that is basicly religious is stupid and against the interest of the transgenderd comulity.


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